Dave Rhody races are well known and are well organized and produced.  He was an avid runner logging in 80 to 100 miles a week including running to and from work.  In 1983 Dave was taking a break from a nine-year stint as a social worker, and decided to wanted to run from Newport Beach to San Francisco a distance of 630 miles in 19 days.  He was waiting tables at Houlihan's Restaurant on Fisherman's Wharf and along the way he stopped at various Houlihan's Restaurants on his route. This led to Dave deciding to produce his first race in 1984, the Houlihan's to Houlihan's race. 

Dave had a natural instinct for event production and his first event was a success with nearly 2000 runners and San Francisco 49er quarterback, Joe Montana was there giving out the awards.  After a few more successful races, Kathy Henning joined Dave as a partner both in business and in life.  Over the last 28 years RhodyCo Productions have produced over 400 races with more than 1.5 million participants. 

I only meet Dave officially just a few years ago.  I had sold Runner's World before he started producing events.  I have been running his races since the early 90's and witnessed a hard working focused guy making it all happen.   At the recent Kaiser SF Half Marathon (Feb 5), Dave took the time to say hi and wish me luck.  I told him I was hoping to run 1:30 and that's what I did.  Like always, it was a well organized and executed event.  We selected this half marathon as one of the Best Road Races in North America.  Thanks Dave for giving us events we want to run.   (Interviewed by Bob Anderson)  

1. You were a runner before you put on your first race in 1984?
Running began as a response to my environment. When I was 15 years old I was a seminarian. Maryknoll Seminary was academically intense, study and prayer filling nearly every waking hour. Late afternoon runs during an hour of ‘free time’ became my salvation. I discovered miles of trails winding through the fifty acres of woodlands that surrounded the seminary, thirty miles west of St. Louis, MO. After leaving the seminary I ran track and x-country for Valparaiso University, then got into marathons in my twenties and thirties. But, long solo runs were always been my favorite.

2. Did you ever think you would be the guy putting on major races?
No. I just knew that I loved to run.

3. As a runner, what moments stand out in my mind?
Passing dozens of Notre Dame runners in my most inspired x-country race at Valpo (I was not a top competitor in most races), the first time I ran the Dipsea trail (alone), the pain of huge water blisters (mid-race monsoon) on my feet as I cross the finish line of the Honolulu Marathon in 1980, my first 30-mile run in the Valley of the Moon, the blur of days (19) and roads (630 miles) running from LA to San Francisco in 1983, my early days discovering Golden Gate Park, Lands End, the bike trail routes of Sausalito to Tiburon, Mt. Tamalpais trails, winter runs in Wisconsin. All these moments morph into an encompassing memory of deep satisfaction and longing for the sense of invincibility eating up mile after mile, wanting nothing more than to run and live for running.

Photo: Dave at the 1984 Houlihan's race.

4. You had nearly 2000 runners in your first race.  How did you pull it off?
In hindsight I know that some of my background, the work ethic my father taught me, experience organizing training conferences (I spent several years teaching teachers how to teach sex education), my goal-oriented attitude, combined well with my running experiences. Mostly, I know that I was in the right place at the right time with the right people. Linda Bullard-Stoich, the Houlihan’s Restaurant manager who put her faith in me to create ‘Houlihan’s to Houlihan’s’, was an inspiration. Kees and Sandy Tuinzing, who created one of the first major race timing companies, Total Race Systems, were selfless teachers. And, Kathy Henning stood by me at every turn.

5. What makes a good race?
It depends on who’s asking the question. We think in terms of objectives – those of the runners, the charity, the sponsors, the authorities and the general public. The ultimate success is when everyone’s objectives are met. Runners have a smooth and exciting race. The charity makes lots of exposure and money for their cause. The sponsors feel like they’ve gotten more than their money’s worth. The authorities judge the race as OK, meaning not having too much negative impact on the general public.

6. What is the biggest race you have produced? 
In the late 1980’s and early 1990’s ‘Run to the Far Side’ grew to about 14,000 runners. It was a treat working with Gary Larson and the California Academy of Sciences, who created the race. It was a huge logistical challenge and a major learning experience at every level.

7. Are there too many races these days?
For runners, the choices in styles, distances and locations of races must be fun. For a city like San Francisco the race calendar has become daunting. For race producers the competition between races for the same market of runners is very challenging. And, for charities, I wonder at the wisdom of their competition with each other. Even a single cause like breast cancer has half a dozen groups competing for the same participants, the same sponsors and for the same venues, often in the same time period.

8. What do you think about offering prize money?
I would love to see more money to be won by our best young runners. Unfortunately, in the SF Bay Area market, prize money generally doesn’t serve most races objectives. We can attract the best runners in California to a race and still not garner any added publicity, see an increase in overall race registration or attract added sponsorship. Without added publicity or more runners, the sponsors and charities are not meeting their objectives.

Photo: Getting the final word that the roads are clear before the Kaiser Half Marathon is going to start.  photo by Catherine Cross Ujena Fit Club

9. How about appearance money?
Appearance money, like prize money, needs to be tied to a race’s key objectives like it is at the Carlsbad 5000 or at major marathons. However, not every prize-money driven race works, especially in San Francisco. In 1999 and through the early 2000’s we produced ‘Champions Run for Children’ with a $30,000 prize purse and appearance money for the best milers in the world. It was a very exciting race. In 2000 six of the men ran sub-4, which must be a San Francisco record. Prior to the invitational mile, we featured a fun, fast 5K that finished on the track in Kezar Stadium. But, Champions Run (and the Jamba Juice 5K) didn’t generate the participant numbers, publicity or sponsorship needed to sustain it beyond a few years.

10. If the Boston Marathon were one on your events, how would it be different?
I can’t conceive of managing a major race outside of the SF Bay Area and Northern California. All the dynamics are just too different. When I settled here in 1981, San Francisco seemed like running nirvana to me. That’s always been part of my inspiration.

11. Have you ever put on a race that had fewer than 100 runners?
Over the years RhodyCo has produced dozens of ‘convention runs.’ A company attending one of the big conventions here in SF will hire us to do a small run just for convention attendees. Most convention runs are a few hundred runners. AT&T hired us for a race that ended up with less than 80 runners. They wanted all the bells and whistles, big start and finish set-up, flat, fast, certified 5K course and a canopied stage for awards. I heard later that the winner of that race signed a multi million-dollar deal with AT&T just days after the race; apparently that was the whole point.

12. Rain or shine...when would you call off an event?
Armageddon, I guess. We’ve pulled off race productions in torrential rainstorms, in the week following the 1989 San Francisco earthquake, a few days after the invasion of Iraq in 2003 and five days after 9/11. We also overcame Dick Cheney’s challenge to the 2005 Emerald Across the Bay 12K course.

13. I can remember running a couple of your events when it was pouring down rain.  That must be tough to make it all work.
On race morning the RhodyCo crew begins work around 3:00 or 4:00 AM. If we’ve slept at all, waking to a rainstorm is an awful feeling. No matter how good the rain gear, we know we’ll be wet and cold by start time with hours of work still ahead. Even when we don’t have a flooded starting line (2008 KP SF Half Marathon), a washed out roadway (2012 Emerald 12K) or downed power lines (1989 Run to the Far Side), wet equipment, wet banners, cardboard boxes of water and sponsor products falling apart, grumpy runners and grumpier sponsors don’t make for a fun day.

14. You have taken some heat from time to time.  Does it bother you? The press can be vicious.
When we suffer criticism (or what seems like outright attacks) from the public or the press, we ask ourselves if any of it is deserved. Did we make a mistake? Could we have done something better? We know we need to try to learn from every experience. What hurts is knowing how much we care, how hard we work to make every running event perfect, the challenges we overcome, the overtime effort and just plain worry and concern we apply to every production.

15. What has happened with your own running these last 27 years?
I overran through my 20’s and 30’s. By the time I was 45 I had logged about 70,000 miles, lots of 100+ miles weeks and too many of those on the roads. I have tried to rehabilitate by cycling and gym workouts and I’ve had knee surgery, but it’s clear that my running days are over.

16. Have you ever ran a race you produced?
Good question. That happened only once.  My friend and I, Ken Meyerhoffer, set-up the entire SF to Sausalito course for the first Houlihan’s race (my first production) and got back to the start line just in time to run it. The following week, after several calls from companies and charities wanting me to help produce their runs, Kathy Henning said, “I’ll help you do this, only if you promise never to run a race we’re producing.” She was right, as always.

Sometimes runners including myself take it for granted that the race we are running is going to be measured and timed correctly. Plus we want everything else that is going to make our experience a good one. It is what we expect these days. Your races are enjoyable to run and I look forward to the next one. Thanks for telling us about the man who makes it all happen...
Bob Anderson 2/21/12 3:33 pm

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Photo: Dave out front detailing out the last minute logistics before the start of the Kaiser SF Half Marathon Feb 5.  Photo by Catherine Cross Ujena Fit Club

17. How many weekends out of the year are tied up with your events?
In the late 1980s we were producing eighteen or twenty races a year. Weekends not spent in producing races served as recuperation for the next production. We settled into a dozen a year in the 1990s. These days race productions are far more complex and involve a 7-day production time line. We pace ourselves through these but do enjoy more weekends with all the kids in our lives.

18. It seems like some of your races have a fair amount of bandits.  Is this a major issue and how do you think it should be handled?
Running without registering is bad behavior, like littering or driving aggressively. It’s people being oblivious to the impact of their behavior. If confronted, they’ll say, "oh, I don’t want the t-shirt" as though that were our only cost (ignoring, of course, permit fees, set-up work, toilets, water, sound systems, timing, volunteer work, the goals of the charity involved and hundreds of elements coming together so they can run a safe, well-marked course). My favorite "handling" of this issue involves a race we didn’t produce: a couple years ago Mayor Gavin Newsom was interviewed at the Bay to Breakers finish line, where he proudly announced that he had run as a "bandit."  The SF Chronicle editorial piece that my partner, Kathy Henning, wrote about the mayor running as a bandit was scathing, the example it set, the fees imposed by the city, etc. -- and it was quite satisfying.

19. How important is chip timing? Seems like there has been some issues.
Installing timing mats at the start, at the finish and at the announcer’s stand, collating chips and bib #’s, and dealing with late starters (who assume it’s OK to start late since the chip timing mat will record when they started) are all added work. The cost of timing runners has tripled. And, what amazes me is how few runners understand that we were accurately timing runners (whether 1,000 or 20,000) for decades prior to the chip timing system.

20. Your entry fees are reasonable compared to others.  NY marathon is now $255.  What is your take on the high entry fees these days?
Race entry fees were always based on "what the market could bear." Every annual race asks every year, how much can we raise the entry fee this year without hurting our numbers. (This isn’t out of greed; it comes from the reality of escalating costs.) The NYC Marathon is still selling out. We’re not the NYC Marathon. We need a profit that sustains us but our partnership with the community guides our entry fees.

21. How important are sponsors?
The right sponsors are essential. Water. Energy bags. Healthy snacks. Electrolytes or other energy drinks. Fresh fruit. All of these provide great in-kind value. Major cash sponsorship is often the difference between a race making money for its cause or not. As running has become more popular, both production costs and expectations have escalated. Sponsorship and entry fees are all part of the revenue column. The goal, of course, is for revenue to be significantly larger than the expense.

22. Most if not all of your races do not have expos? Why have you not gone down this road?
We have focused on safe, well-organized races, with fun-filled, goodie-packed post race expos. Also, RhodyCo is small, family business. Producing a Saturday expo and then a Sunday run can’t both be done well by a single production crew.

23. Some of your races like Run Wild For The Child is much smaller than in the past, does this concern you?
Our twenty-nine years of race production have given us a lot of déja vu moments. Trends in the most popular running distance, race styles, themes and causes change with each new generation of runners. We’re fond of Run Wild and hope it makes a comeback, meanwhile quality is the focus with every run.

24. How has your events helped get new people involved in running?
We haven’t spent much time doing runner surveys, but not a race goes by without dozens of runners grabbing a moment with Kathy, Nancy, Diane, me or one of our crew to tell us how much our races mean to them, sometimes crediting us with their whole lifetime of running. That’s the feedback that keeps us going.

25. How important is it to you that your races are won in fast times?
I identify with the satisfaction and thrill of a runner running his or her best time, whether that be a 1:04 half marathon by the first place guy, or a 3:30 half by a 65-year-old woman. Only with a very few races have we tied the reputation of the race to the winning times: Champions Run in the 2000’s and the HP Up & Running and the Apple Silicon Rally 10K in the 1980’s.

26. Why do you think the average times in races is getting slower?
The major upside to the rising costs and greater expectations for races (technology) is the ever-growing popularity of running. More runners means a broader demographic and a broader representation of body-types and running goals. (But, quite honestly, I see lots of people running long distances who aren’t doing themselves any good.)

27. Many races have more women than men.  Where are the men? Are they running but just not racing? Or is there more women running than men these days?
Title IX has taken a while to level the playing field for women. Running was one of the first sports to offer women equal opportunity. We’re seeing the boon of that equalization and I think running is a popular, empowering trend for women, too. Plenty of men are still running.

28. When did you realize you could make a living by putting on events?
My sarcastic side wants to say "only recently."  I’ve always enjoyed quoting my dear friend, Gene Cohn who has been shooting race photos (including finish line photos for every runner) even longer than I’ve been in business. When asked if he made any money doing race photography, he said, “I lose a little bit on each project, but I make it up in volume.” It felt like that for the first ten years or more. And it’s still a volatile business, every decision counts. The projects we turn down are as important as the one’s we decide to produce. The turn of a major sponsorship deal can determine profitability or loss for a production.

Photo: Announcing the runners as they cross the finish line at the 2011 Run Wild for a Child.  Photo by Catherine Cross Ujena Fit Club

29. It seems you have done very well in this business.  And you are still the guy right there making it happen and giving out awards at many if your races. You must love it?
It’s satisfying to know that we’re good at what we do and it’s nice to feel that it’s noticed. Thank you. Knowing we’re not perfect and that we must continue to learn and improve is our challenge. When we feel we’re no longer up to it, when all the things we love about it have faded, it will be time for us to fold up the start banner for good.

30. What are the key positions in putting on a race? Are you more of a producer or director? Is there a different between the owner of the event and the producer?
Few people are clear about the fact that every single race functions as its own small business -- income, expenses, liabilities, goals and direction all uniquely tied to that production and is owned by someone (a company, a charity or an individual). Whether RhodyCo is hired by a charity or corporation to manage a race or we are the owners, our overall role is production. On race weekend our role changes to being directors. In most cases, if a race ran credits at the end, it would be "produced and directed by RhodyCo Productions."

31. I see you have written a novel Dakota White. 
Like most first novels, Dakota White is autobiographical. It’s the story of a San Francisco race director who becomes obsessed with his roots. It traces the parallels of Lakota history in South Dakota and my own family roots. I was born on small South Dakota farm, homesteaded by my grandfather in 1885. He like thousands of other immigrants were encouraged to settle the Dakotas as an excuse for the U.S. Cavalry to wipe out or pen up the remaining Lakota. The novel involves a guilt-inspired quest by its main character to support the completion of the Crazy Horse monument in the Black Hills...

32. What is a typical day like for you these days?
I spend most of the day at my computer, polishing and e-mailing sponsor proposals, reviewing race photos and video for upcoming ad campaigns, checking course maps, time lines and set-up schematics, writing copy for radio and TV promos and answering runner questions. I’m usually delighted to get out of the office for site checks or course measurement. And, the thing I like best about race weekend is working outside in the beautiful settings we have for our races.

33. You use outside timing companies to time most of your races?  How come you don't do this in house? 
Timing is a specialty. Once you have all the equipment and personnel to do it right, you will only see a return on your investment if you time a lot more races than the ones you produce.

34. What other interests do you have?
I read every chance I get, one or two books a week. I like to write. A good workout on a regular basis is still essential to my sanity. I love spending time with "my kids," Shaina and Bryan (they are kind of like grandkids, kind of like our adopted kids, but are actually our great niece and nephew). They, along with dozens of other nieces, nephews and friends kids, are the best thing about life.

35. How did you meet Kathy?
In the Fall of 1977 I "trained" Kathy Henning.  She was my replacement.  We were both social workers. We dated for several years until I left the Midwest for graduate work at the University of Hawaii. Eight months later, during her Christmas visit, we sat together on the cliffs of Hanauma Bay and decided, at the same instant, with no discussion, that we needed to be together. We both moved to San Francisco a month later and have been together ever since.

36. What is her role at RhodyCo?
There would be no RhodyCo without Kathy Henning. I could not have done this alone and I would not have lasted the first year of business without her. She is the strongest woman I have ever known. My name may be on the door, but that’s only because my ego is needier than hers.

37. How closely do you follow the running world?
I am a fan of track & field and marathons. I have read every issue of Runner’s World, starting when you published it to last month’s issue. My younger brother, Wayne, follows track & field even more closely than I do. Forty years ago he set the Wisconsin state high school record for 2-miles. When it was broken at last years state meet, he was there. Those moments continue to fuel our regular calls about broken records and track & field highlights. If he reads this, he’ll be calling to yell at me for not remembering what his 2-mile record was.

38. Do you ever feel this business got in the way of your own personal running?  Any regrets?
From age 15 to 45 I got to run like there was no tomorrow. I have no regrets.

39. Anything new coming?
RhodyCo is now part of the management team for Mavericks Invitational. It very exhilarating to apply what we’ve learned in race production to a new sport. Big wave surfing is amazing and obviously very different than running, but it requires similar event management skills. It’s a great change of pace for us.

40. At the end of the day, has it all been worth it?
Yes.